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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 12, 2003 |
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On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 00:16, Bjorn Olsson wrote:
Yes, do that. And may I also add that I really would like
to congratulate the company that is going to hire you in
the future. You, sir Prashanth, is a definitely a role model.
If only engineers could be so thoughful and honest as you.
(I assume you will tell your teacher that you solved the
problem by using code you found on www.opencores.org right?
You will of course not present it as your own solution and
that makes me glad. I mean, why invent the wheel twice, right?)
It is a great idea to use other peoples work and present it to
people as your own. In school, getting your grades is all that
matters huh? Well, the only problem I see is that...
eventually reality catches up!
/Björn Olsson
/InformAsic AB
_______________________________________________
http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores
Don't even get me started! Oops, too late, you did! I have spent the last 30 years doing as you seem to be suggesting, i.e. independent thought, thorough research, analyzing challenges, and debugging errors. In that time, I have seen well-respected schools churning out graduates that are incapable of finding a reference, unable to define a logic chain, and without clue as to how to diagnose or fix a logic error. What they can do is parrot back answers once you tell them what you want to hear, or ask for "direction" and "clarification" until all they have left to do is transcribe the code and compile it. For some strange reason, these talents are far more important now, at least to American companies, than any demonstrated ability to actually do independent work. Apparently, the ability to demonstrate your awareness of other peoples' work is of great value in today's job market. So, if Friend Prashanth and his ilk wish to copy my logic, who am I to stand in the way of the supply of plagiarists and yes-men who are the wave of the future in American industry? Steve McQueen P.S. - What's the market like in Europe? Anybody willing to pay for a competent designer? |
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 12, 2003 |
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Here..here...Steve McQueen. I have worked with my fair share of
transcriptionists in your sense of the word.
This is simply the difference between rote learners and problem solvers.
I had to derived a test to weed these people out of the hiring process.
One part technical multiple choice, and finally a simple question I
found that divided the rote learners from the problem solvers. It did
the trick! There were multiple solutions to the problem, their choice of
solution provided VERY keen insight into their problem solving strategy.
C
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven R. McQueen [mailto:srmcqueen at mcqueentech.com]
[snip] What they
can do is parrot back answers once you tell them what you want to hear,
or ask for "direction" and "clarification" until all they have left to
do is transcribe the code and compile it.
For some strange reason, these talents are far more important now, at
least to American companies, than any demonstrated ability to actually
do independent work. Apparently, the ability to demonstrate your
awareness
of other peoples' work is of great value in today's job market.
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Billditt on Dec 12, 2003 |
Billditt
Posts: 4 Joined: Feb 12, 2002 Last seen: Aug 1, 2021 |
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The reason rote learning has become important is that it is
easy to measure, quantify. Measuring someones problem solving ability is harder (though better). Its performance, not potential. |
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 12, 2003 |
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Steve,
There's nothing wrong in "manufacturing" engineers. There's room for
everyone.
Those who can't think for themselves find themselves in the same place doing
the same thing for years. I worked for some big companies and I can tell you
that
these are the people who do the tedious and repetitive work of static timing
analysis,
gate level simulation, formal logic verification etc. These engineers never
developed
new ideas in their lives, never contributed to the growing intellectual
property of
the company. But still they are invaluable, because if they take a thinking
and creative
engineer to do those works they won't survive a single week.
There might be a slow down in the electrical engineering the last three
years, but it won't
last forever, and the thinking engineer rather then the copying one is the
one who'll change it.
Erez.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven R. McQueen" srmcqueen at mcqueentech.com>
To: "Discussion list about free open source IP cores" cores at opencores.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 8:36 AM
Subject: [oc] Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 00:16, Bjorn Olsson wrote:
>
> Yes, do that. And may I also add that I really would like
> to congratulate the company that is going to hire you in
> the future. You, sir Prashanth, is a definitely a role model.
> If only engineers could be so thoughful and honest as you.
>
> (I assume you will tell your teacher that you solved the
> problem by using code you found on www.opencores.org right?
> You will of course not present it as your own solution and
> that makes me glad. I mean, why invent the wheel twice, right?)
>
> It is a great idea to use other peoples work and present it to
> people as your own. In school, getting your grades is all that
> matters huh? Well, the only problem I see is that...
>
> eventually reality catches up!
>
> /Björn Olsson
> /InformAsic AB
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores
Don't even get me started! Oops, too late, you did! I have spent
the last 30 years doing as you seem to be suggesting, i.e. independent
thought, thorough research, analyzing challenges, and debugging errors.
In that time, I have seen well-respected schools churning out graduates
that are incapable of finding a reference, unable to define a logic chain,
and without clue as to how to diagnose or fix a logic error. What they
can do is parrot back answers once you tell them what you want to hear,
or ask for "direction" and "clarification" until all they have left to
do is transcribe the code and compile it.
For some strange reason, these talents are far more important now, at
least to American companies, than any demonstrated ability to actually
do independent work. Apparently, the ability to demonstrate your awareness
of other peoples' work is of great value in today's job market.
So, if Friend Prashanth and his ilk wish to copy my logic, who am I to
stand in the way of the supply of plagiarists and yes-men who are the
wave of the future in American industry?
Steve McQueen
P.S. - What's the market like in Europe? Anybody willing to pay for a
competent designer?
_______________________________________________
http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 13, 2003 |
Not available! | ||
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Hi
P.S. - What's the market like in Europe? Anybody willing to pay for a
Almost here in spain, i can tell you that NO. Anybody willing to pay either
for competent or incompent designers. The local companies prefer pay much
more for any ready-maded solution coming for big companies with big names,
before to pay to a designer.
I never gain a cent as electronic designer and never a company was
interested for my work, so i must obliged to work as computer technician or
writing software. Here design electronics is some like try to sell fridges
on the noth pole and i continue making these things as hobby just for fun.
Daniel Quintero Gonzalez
danielqg at infonegocio.com
competent designer? |
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 13, 2003 |
Not available! | ||
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On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 15:32, Daniel Quintero wrote:
Hi
>P.S. - What's the market like in Europe? Anybody willing to pay for a
Almost here in spain, i can tell you that NO. Anybody willing to pay either
for competent or incompent designers. The local companies prefer pay much
more for any ready-maded solution coming for big companies with big names,
before to pay to a designer.
I never gain a cent as electronic designer and never a company was
interested for my work, so i must obliged to work as computer technician or
writing software. Here design electronics is some like try to sell fridges
on the noth pole and i continue making these things as hobby just for fun.
Daniel Quintero Gonzalez
danielqg at infonegocio.com
_______________________________________________
http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores
>competent designer? Daniel... I was afraid of that. Steve |
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Re: Value of a degree (rant warning)
by Unknown on Dec 13, 2003 |
Not available! | ||
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Well, I did warn you that I was ranting. Thanks to all who replied. I got an
unexpected bonus of perspective that was sorely needed at the moment. In fairness, I will say that I have met college graduates whom I found to be competent, intelligent, and at least reasonably creative. To those who fall into this category, I regret that I originally applied the tar with an excessively wide brush. Thanks for the responses... Steve |
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