This is the point where you can't talk about "IP" any more, and have to break it into its components: patents, trade secrets, and copyright. If you have never seen or worked on the commercial IP in question, trade secrets and copyright aren't a problem, so it's just patents that are at issue. If the algorithm is patented, you're out of luck unless you can find a way to work around the patent. If there are no patents at issue, there shouldn't be any reason you can't re-implement someone else's IP. However, IANAL, so if you're actually concerned, consult an attorney. - Guy On 10/4/06, a.larbi at gmail.com a.larbi at gmail.com> wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.opencores.org/forums.cgi/cores/attachments/20061005/74c866b5/attachment.htm

It depends on patents, copyrights, trade secrets, etc... I am not a lawyer, but... In general, I think, you can write it and put it up on opencores (along with disclaimers). Worse that will likely happen is you will get a letter asking for the content to be removed because it violates some patent, or some-such. Legal situations generally are not serious unless you make a commercial implementation (or ignore letters from lawyers to remove your content), and if you write it yourself, it probably wouldn't fall under copyright protection even if you use the same algorithm. Chances are if you get a letter from a lawyer, they are just trying to scare you. However, it would probably be cost prohibitive to defend against. That said, if you know the other commercial IP, you may want to do a patent search, and or ask the company, etc... Is it an implementation of a standard, as most industry standard try not to be encumbered by patents, etc... Could you be a little more specific about what IP you had in mind? Someone might be able to know based on that if it will likely be a concern or not... -----Original Message----- From: cores-bounces at opencores.org [mailto:cores-bounces at opencores.org] On Behalf Of a.larbi at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:00 PM To: cores at opencores.org Subject: [oc] Legal Information ? Hi all, If I write an IP having the same features than an other commercial IP , ("perhaps" with the same algorithm), I will be in an illegal situation ? Thanks, Faz _______________________________________________ http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores

Hi all,

If I write an IP having the same features than an other commercial IP ,
("perhaps" with the same algorithm), I will be in an illegal situation ?

Thanks,

Faz

Well, this is interesting and I have a query. Sometime back I read a DSP book which suggested that the designers of SHARC processors were the first to implement or maybe invent the Circular Buffer. What happens if the following situation arises : A designer reads the documentation relating to the SHARC processor. He makes notes and then decides that the buffer is well suited for his own design. The circular buffer core he writes is very similar to the SHARC one, but only from top, i.e. at the system/module level. However because he did not know how the original core is inside, the HDL code is his own. The programmer also incorporates his own algorithms and optimizations which turn out to be different from the original. The system however still looks very much like the original from the top. It has the same components (pointer, memory store, address generator etc) which are connected through the same datapaths. Maybe even the signalling and timing are similar. So basically, the designer has copied the system but written the code. Will this amount to copyright infringement on the part of the designer ? Regards, Abhijit On 10/5/06, Lauro, John jlauro at umflint.edu> wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.opencores.org/forums.cgi/cores/attachments/20061006/33a05ad0/attachment.htm

In general the design should be clean. There's a little grey because the same designer read the manual and then wrote the code -- true clean-room design would have one person read the SHARC documentation, and then write a separate document describing how the system should be built. A second designer would then use that spec to implement a design. Again, this only covers copyright -- if there are patents on the buffer design, it doesn't matter who implemented it or whether it was copied or developed from scratch. Unfortunately, if they're really ticked off, nothing prevents the owners of the original design from suing you. Even if you eventually win in court, you still have to pay to defend yourself, or, if you can't afford the legal fees, give in to their demands and remove whatever it is they don't like. In the U.S., there are no guarentees in this area. On 10/5/06, Abhijit Krishna abhijit.krishna at gmail.com> wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.opencores.org/forums.cgi/cores/attachments/20061006/fff17690/attachment.htm

IANAL, but it should be fairly easy to prove the implantation is
different. You can't simply reverse engineer (AFAIK) hardware based
on external signal specifications, as say a BIOS written in assembly
which could be disassembled and simply reordered, where a clean-room
is more critical...



What Is Protected By Copyright Copyright protection extends to a description, explanation, or illustration of an idea or system, assuming that the requirements of the copyright law are met. Copyright in such a case protects the particular literary or pictorial expression chosen by the author. However, it gives the copyright owner no exclusive rights in the idea, method, or system involved. Suppose, for example, that an author writes a book explaining a new system for food processing. The copyright in the book, which comes into effect at the moment the work is fixed in a tangible form, will prevent others from publishing the text and illustrations describing the author's ideas for machinery, processes, and merchandising methods. But it will not give the author any rights to prevent others from adopting the ideas for commercial purposes or from developing or using the machinery, processes, or methods described in the book. In other words, IMHO, the real issue in this case is if the design has a patent... ________________________________ From: cores-bounces at opencores.org [mailto:cores-bounces at opencores.org] On Behalf Of Guy Hutchison Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:41 PM To: Discussion list about free open source IP cores Subject: Re: [oc] Legal Information ? In general the design should be clean. There's a little grey because the same designer read the manual and then wrote the code -- true clean-room design would have one person read the SHARC documentation, and then write a separate document describing how the system should be built. A second designer would then use that spec to implement a design. Again, this only covers copyright -- if there are patents on the buffer design, it doesn't matter who implemented it or whether it was copied or developed from scratch. Unfortunately, if they're really ticked off, nothing prevents the owners of the original design from suing you. Even if you eventually win in court, you still have to pay to defend yourself, or, if you can't afford the legal fees, give in to their demands and remove whatever it is they don't like. In the U.S., there are no guarentees in this area. On 10/5/06, Abhijit Krishna abhijit.krishna at gmail.com > wrote: Well, this is interesting and I have a query. Sometime back I read a DSP book which suggested that the designers of SHARC processors were the first to implement or maybe invent the Circular Buffer. What happens if the following situation arises : A designer reads the documentation relating to the SHARC processor. He makes notes and then decides that the buffer is well suited for his own design. The circular buffer core he writes is very similar to the SHARC one, but only from top, i.e. at the system/module level. However because he did not know how the original core is inside, the HDL code is his own. The programmer also incorporates his own algorithms and optimizations which turn out to be different from the original. The system however still looks very much like the original from the top. It has the same components (pointer, memory store, address generator etc) which are connected through the same datapaths. Maybe even the signalling and timing are similar. So basically, the designer has copied the system but written the code. Will this amount to copyright infringement on the part of the designer ? Regards, Abhijit On 10/5/06, Lauro, John jlauro at umflint.edu> wrote: It depends on patents, copyrights, trade secrets, etc... I am not a lawyer, but... In general, I think, you can write it and put it up on opencores (along with disclaimers). Worse that will likely happen is you will get a letter asking for the content to be removed because it violates some patent, or some-such. Legal situations generally are not serious unless you make a commercial implementation (or ignore letters from lawyers to remove your content), and if you write it yourself, it probably wouldn't fall under copyright protection even if you use the same algorithm. Chances are if you get a letter from a lawyer, they are just trying to scare you. However, it would probably be cost prohibitive to defend against. That said, if you know the other commercial IP, you may want to do a patent search, and or ask the company, etc... Is it an implementation of a standard, as most industry standard try not to be encumbered by patents, etc... Could you be a little more specific about what IP you had in mind? Someone might be able to know based on that if it will likely be a concern or not... -----Original Message----- From: cores-bounces at opencores.org [mailto: cores-bounces at opencores.org ] On Behalf Of a.larbi at gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:00 PM To: cores at opencores.org Subject: [oc] Legal Information ? Hi all, If I write an IP having the same features than an other commercial IP , ("perhaps" with the same algorithm), I will be in an illegal situation ? Thanks, Faz _______________________________________________ http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores _______________________________________________ http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores _______________________________________________ http://www.opencores.org/mailman/listinfo/cores -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.opencores.org/forums.cgi/cores/attachments/20061006/5d69a307/attachment.htm